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11/5/2009
So who's right about Pelosi's health care plan?
Who’s right on health care, especially in light of the back and forth these last two days on the politics of the off-year election results? Who’s right on health care, especially in light of 2,032 (yes, so far, 42 pages in amendments have been added) pages of health care policy being voted on this Saturday?
Who’s right on health care when Democratic lawmakers claim their losses in Virginia and New Jersey mean the electorate is concerned about the economy and that means they need to triple their efforts at passing supposed health care reform?
As they assessed the results, Democratic lawmakers and party strategists said their judgment was that voters remained very uneasy about the economy and did not see Democrats producing on the health, energy and national security changes they promised when voters swept them to power only a year ago.
Voters uneasy about the economy, so push harder for trillions more in debt? Hmmm.
Who’s right on health care when you get this oxymoronic headline from far left lefty Robert Reich:
Healthcare matters, but unemployment matters more.
(Reich says we need health care reform, stronger than what’s in the Senate, but more than that even, President Obama better very quickly turn his attention to jobs.)
As you know, survey results can point to almost exact opposite conclusions, depending on the sampling, the question, the delivery of the question and a mountain of other variables. I appreciate PolitiFact.com as a reliable nonpartisan researcher and commenter on political issues. They’ve analyzed recent surveys across the board and come to a conclusion.
Let's summarize. Recent polls that asked general health care reform questions have found consistent opposition to the Democratic plan. In polls of all adults, it has often been opposition by a modest margin, while polls of registered or likely voters have found more intense opposition.
Read it all so you have all of the ifs ands and buts. It’s a pretty quick read, analyzing a number of different polls, their sampling and the wording of the questions. Perhaps the Dems need to think again before forcing their members to vote on this huge thing Saturday night – and before forcing their members to vote on any reform that increases government’s presence in the lives of Americans to the extent that 111 new bureaucracies do.
I'd have to say (yeah, again) that, given PolitiFact's analysis of the survey results, it's Paul Ryan who's right about health care.
It is increasingly clear that Washington’s trillion-dollar, two-thousand page overhaul will make matters worse. In nearly every analytical report there is a common trend: greater government control over health care further drives costs in the wrong direction. Congress is intent on creating a costly new entitlement, centralizing the decisions on what constitutes insurance, imposing mandates on individuals and employers alike, and adding hundreds of billions of dollars in new taxes – all without regard to the fundamental problem of sky-rocketing health care costs.
In making the case for reform, President Obama’s budget director, Peter Orszag, argued, “The single most important thing we can do to improve the long-term fiscal health of our nation is slow the growth rate in health care costs.” Yet the legislation White House and Congressional leaders are pushing does the exact opposite.
Jo Egelhoff, FoxPolitics.net
COMMENTS
Polls be damned. On something as important as real health care reform every politician needs to do what is right regardless of the political consequences down the road. There is a time to lead the public and a time to follow the public. Health care is the most complicated single facet of our society and also the most expensive. Survey after survey shows almost total ignorance of how our system works (or doesn't). The polls may be real but that doesn't mean the public knows a damned thing about what their responding to.
dave allen (Thu Nov 05 07:02:35 2009)
So Dave, are you saying that we (the dummies back at home) are too stupid to know what's best for us? Are you saying our leaders know better and they should proceed without regard for the wishes of those they represent?
Just looking for some clarification here.
Jeff (Thu Nov 05 07:36:00 2009)
Dave, Jeff is not looking for clarification he's looking for a fight. The answer is that local folks are in two basic camps. The camps are a result of the propoganda being spewed by the extremes of the left and right. One camp is disinformed and frightened and the other camp has been lulled into some false sense of security by faulty analysis. It is clear we are subject to a health care system that is wildly mismanaged and overly dependend on private insurance providers who are taking one third of every dollar we spend and converting it into Taj Mahal corporate headquarters, corporate jets, unreasonable salaries and perks and share holder wealth. If we were able to pull off a few basic reforms we could improved the lives of millions of Americans. Create a public option to encourage competition. Eliminate pre-existing condition clauses. Limit Insurance company excessive profits and require that 90% of all healthcare insurance dollars be spent on actual health care. Create a safety net that catches folks with disabilities, the elderly and the poor. Invest in education and produce more physicians interested in providing basic care and incent people to live more healthy lifestyles. These suggestions would go a long way to reforming a truly broken system.
billie (Thu Nov 05 07:51:45 2009)
Jeff,
Yes. We elect leaders to be the experts and represent our interests. Leaders are not supposed to follow the polls if they know what is a better option. That is exactly what has been the substance of many election season charges "candidate X doesn't have any real policies he/she just follows the polls". It is a scientific fact that polls do a very poor job of linking opinion with fact. Polls simply elicit opinion and the way the question is asked and what the question is has a huge influence on what the poll outcome is. I'm not saying the polls are inaccurate about the "feelings" of people surveyed. The public is very uninformed about the workings of our health care system many other issues out there. The public may be upset about health care but that has no connection to the proposed solutions and their understanding of the impact of possible solutions. The "death panel" hysteria is an excellent example of this.
dave allen (Thu Nov 05 07:54:16 2009)
Dave said:"The polls may be real but that doesn't mean the public knows a damned thing about what their responding to."
Precisely - and 'The One' knows that if he doesn't ram through his massive socialistic program before he loses his liberal majority in Congress he's going to have to go around the nation, debating, explaining and detailing how the program would work. That way there would be a majority of educated and informed people; that way at least those who will have to pay for it will have the time to read the bill, and that way maybe the electorate wouldn't be gagging on 2000 pages of Pelosi-speak being jammed down their collective throats.
Duke (Thu Nov 05 08:09:11 2009)
>>> Dave: "We elect leaders to be the experts and represent our interests."
Absolutely. Problem is, we only pay their salaries. The special interests pay the campaign costs and keep them in office. Once there, staying there becomes more important.
>>> Ryan: “The single most important thing we can do to improve the long-term fiscal health of our nation is slow the growth rate in health care costs.”
Yea, yea, Paul. While medical costs are rising at 5% per year, insurance premiums are rising at 14% per year. But of course, they help fund Ryan's campaign. Go figure.
We are better off killing the House and Senate bills. Both are terrible. Put the decision in the hands of a non-conflicted healthcare board and we'll see reform we can live with.
Jack Lohman (Thu Nov 05 08:24:44 2009)
Dave: New information that I heard just yesterday from a doctor talking on a TV show, mentioned that in the "stimulous" bill, not the health bill, there are two provisions for death panels. One creates a agency that would determine just that. Who gets what,etc. Another agency works with doctors determinimg just what diagnostics they can use for certain types of people and situations.
He also said that if the bill does have rationing, near 45% of doctors will leave the profession. (Polls down by Pew showed that). If that happens and we add 30 or 40 million to the health care system, then what? Do you also realize that 93% of doctors pratice defensive medicine now because of insurance. Unfortunately, the nations press will not cover these items, as usual, so we know little about them. If all this is true, we better act quickly and get to our representatives.
Or, disaster awaits!
John Hyland (Thu Nov 05 09:03:24 2009)
One thing I forgot. Most of the big insurance companies are non-profit. The average profit for the industry is 2.2% compared to most other industries they are way down in 28th place.
They raise rates when hospitals, doctors, raise rates. An MRI is in the thousands. I just paid over a thoussand for a CT scan and near $1,000 for ten shots for a procedure that needed me to stop my coumidin. It was for a shot in the spine that was over a thousand. That's what raise rates.
Don't blame the insurance industry.
John Hyland (Thu Nov 05 09:16:57 2009)
Dave,
That's what I though you were saying. So by your logic, you're "good" with Tom Petri, Paul Ryan, Newt Gingrich, or Sarah Palin determining what's best for you ... right? You're perfectly comfortable with that?
Jeff (Thu Nov 05 09:39:54 2009)
John, you are falling for the industry hype. First, non-profits are exactly that... not even 2.2% is allowed. But as a former business owner I can assure you that CEOs can make their "profits" look like anything they want.
But even then, the 2.2% "claimed" is AFTER deducting their horrendous overhead costs (CEO salaries, bonuses, stock options, marketing costs, actuarial costs, broker commissions, and lobbying and campaign contributions). The insurance bureaucracy IS INDEED a major part (though not all of) the problem. These costs add 31% to our health care bill.
Secondly, *IF* we have rationing and procedures that are not covered, NOTHING in any bill out there, not even the current Medicare system, prevents the patient from buying these services directly, the good, old-fashioned free market way... with cash dollars. That should make conservatives tickled pink.
Jack Lohman (Thu Nov 05 09:41:32 2009)
The "death squad" in buried in the "stimulous" bill. The wording is such that it is hard to determine its exact meaning. But that's what it is according to the doctor. Perhaps no one has read the entire stupid thing!
So, you think the insurance companies will stop advertising and lower their cost of employee compensation. Hardly!
Unless of course they are forced by Obama. More socialism.
John Hyland (Thu Nov 05 09:53:15 2009)
No John, I don't believe the insurance industry needs to be raking off a share of the dollars in the first place. You and I are on Medicare, and if we extended that to 100% of our people we could spend that 31% of bureaucracy waste on health care instead. NO increase in dollars spent, though we would pay for it differently. And we'd eliminate this burden for employers who spend 17% of their wages on premiums. They could spend that money on bringing jobs back to the US.
Jack Lohman (Thu Nov 05 10:07:28 2009)
It is true that most people are in one of two camps--but the SENSIBLE option is to follow neither. The only truly sensible option would be to REMOVE THE MIDDLEMAN--whether that middleman is govt or an insurance company! Nobody would imagine paying any other tradesman the way they expect their medical bills to be paid; it's absurd to think that using middlemen in any way, shape, or form would help!
All anybody needs as far as insurance goes, is major medical, NOT "health" insurance.
As to how well the govt works, take a look at the recent news: th WI Office of the Commissioner of Insurance has now made a rule that adult children without insurance must now be covered by their parents' insurance! HMMM, I guess Badgercare can't cut it after all.
And as to "rationing" I am pleased to see the following notice given to our ER admission front desk: "Medical Assistance Emergency Services will only pay for medical emergencies. This program does not guarantee the sewrvices you receive today will be paid. You are responsible for non-covered services provided to you today." And there is a place for them to sign. It's a miracle, and maybe too good to be true, but it seems the govt. (who would be behind this initiative, NOT the hospital, as we are required by govt to see any and all deadbeats that show up for minor problems. I was surprised to see there is a form of Med Assistance that is indeed, for emergencies only. Shocked to see that at least for this small sector, the govt actually is making sense!
I predict we will see more of this type of govt coverage as time goes on, and reality asserts itself.
EMILY MATTHEWS (Thu Nov 05 15:18:11 2009)
Emily, I could almost buy your idea of eliminating the middleman and having major medical only. Employers could offer whatever reimbursement they wanted, but they'd be nervous that employees would bring in fabricated receipts to rip off the company. But then, each company could set up their own internal fraud investigation units and we'd employ even more people. Wow!
But your idea would not eliminate the deadbeats from showing up at the ER. Only a Medicare-for-all system will do that, where 100% of the public can go to the doctor's office for minor care. Or to a Wal-mart rapid clinic or whatever.
But damn, why are we going in circles, spending more time and money than it would cost to simply do it right the first time. Yea, call it socialized medicine if you want, but it works!
Jack Lohman (Thu Nov 05 15:44:44 2009)
Jeff,
As far as I know Newt Gingrich and Sara Palin aren't elected officials are they? As far as Tom Petri, I have a lot of respect for Mr. Petri.
(Thu Nov 05 16:19:53 2009)
Well, I think Dave's silence says it all. Our leaders must boldly lead, regardless of the whims of the 'unwashed masses at home' really translates in to "we better get this done while we can eek out a vote".
Soaring rhetoric so often goes silent when exposed for what it really is.
Jeff (Thu Nov 05 19:13:59 2009)
Jeff, do you really believe our congressmen are boldly leading, or are they following the command of the cash bribes?
Jack Lohman (Thu Nov 05 20:19:13 2009)
There is NOTHING bold about those who hold elected office in Washington D.C. - I hardly consider them leaders, nor do I believe many of them represent US.
Lobbyists and special interests are the predominant influences along side the entrenched political parties.
Bold leadership? No, not so much.
Jeff (Sat Nov 07 20:42:51 2009)
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