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2/17/2010
WFA: Bill would disenfranchise voters - Act TODAY
A bill the Democrats are attempting to ramrod through the state legislature, Assembly Bill 751, would create a national popular vote for the U.S. presidency, essentially undermining the Electoral College. The bill was introduced late February 15 and the Assembly Elections Committee scheduled a public hearing for February 17 at 1 p.m. The legislature is pushing this dangerous bill through at breakneck speed. AB 751 is part of a national effort to disenfranchise voters that is gaining ground at an alarming rate (with a troubling connection to the notorious liberal money-bags, George Soros).
The Electoral College, an election process created by the Founding Fathers and established in the U.S. Constitution, was a brilliant compromise between states with large populations and those with small populations. Each state is awarded a number of electoral votes for president based on state population and state sovereignty. The state popular vote for president determines which presidential candidates wins that state’s electoral votes.
This bill would authorize the State of Wisconsin to take part in an interstate compact with other states, pledging that our state’s electoral votes will go to the presidential candidate who wins, not the popular vote of Wisconsin, but the national popular vote. If you think your vote is just one of many in the state right now, imagine what little impact your vote would have if it was only one of millions and millions of votes! With the Electoral College, your vote is a higher percentage of the total votes from the state and has a greater impact on the presidential election. With a national popular vote, the states with the highest populations determine the president, and then Wisconsin is forced to ratify their vote, regardless of whether that candidate was the choice of the majority of Wisconsin voters.
>> click here to sign WFA petition urging State Legislators to oppose the bill
>> click here to send a prepared (that you can edit as you like) email to your State Representative
Wisconsin Family Action is organized as a 501(c)(4) to educate and advocate on cultural and legislative issues that either threaten or strengthn Wisconsin’s most valuable resource – her traditional families.
COMMENTS
A survey of 800 Wisconsin state voters conducted on December 12-14, 2008 showed 71% overall support for a national popular vote for President. Support was 81% among Democrats, 67% among independents, and 63% among Republicans. By age, support was 68% among 18-29 year olds, 62% among 30-45 year olds, 72% among 46-65 year olds, and 76% for those older than 65. By gender, support was 80% among women and 61% among men. By race, support was 72% among whites (representing 89% of respondents), 64% among African-Americans (representing 5% of respondents), and 58% among Others (representing 5% of respondents).
See www.NationalPopularVote.com
kohler (Wed Feb 17 20:45:08 2010)
Nope, I don't buy it. The poll does not offer any information - simply the American bias of a vote should equal a vote. To wit:
How do you think we should elect the President: should it be the candidate who gets the most votes in all 50 states, or the current electoral college system?
No explanation or sharing of the agonizing and debate our forefathers undertook in creating the electoral college system. No discussion of the overwhelming impact of populous cities and populous states. No discussion of the resulting insignificant impact of small states. (I don't buy the argument made at www.nationalpopularvote.com - but won't spend the time now to expand on that. Essentially the argument is made that small states are disenfranchised because they're not paid attention to by campaigns, especially if they are small and non-competitive. Disenfranchisement doesn't occur because of lack of attention, disenfranchisement occurs because of lack of impact of votes.
Madison and his peers thought (and fought) this out vigorously; it's time more of us pulled out the Federalist Papers and spent some time with them.
Madison thought it embodied the "federal will" of the nation. By that he meant that the Electoral College included both the will of the nation as expressed in the popular vote and the will of the states in a federal system (every state large or small gets two electors). As Madison knew, this amalgamation gave small and medium-sized states more leverage in presidential elections than they would have in a popular vote. He found that fair given the influence of large states in other areas. [John Samples, Cato Institute]
Jo (Wed Feb 17 21:32:54 2010)
The Founding Fathers said in the U.S. Constitution (only after debating among 60 ballots for choosing a method): "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors . . ." The U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly characterized the authority of the state legislatures over the manner of awarding their electoral votes as "plenary" and "exclusive."
Neither of the two most important features of the current system of electing the President (namely, universal suffrage, and the 48 state-by-state winner-take-all rule) are in the U.S. Constitution. Neither was the choice of the Founders when they went back to their states to organize the nation's first presidential election.
In 1789, in the nation's first election, the people had no vote for President in most states, Only men who owned a substantial amount of property could vote.
In 1789 only three states used the state-by-state winner-take-all rule to award electoral votes.
There is no valid argument that the winner-take-all rule is entitled to any special deference based on history or the historical meaning of the words in the U.S. Constitution. The current 48 state-by-state winner-take-all rule (i.e., awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in a particular state) is not mentioned in the U.S. Constitution, the debates of the Constitutional Convention, or the Federalist Papers. The actions taken by the Founding Fathers make it clear that they never gave their imprimatur to the winner-take-all rule.
As a result of changes in state laws enacted since 1789, the people have the right to vote for presidential electors in 100% of the states, there are no property requirements for voting in any state, and the state-by-state winner-take-all rule is used by 48 of the 50 states.
kohler (Thu Feb 18 00:54:15 2010)
12 of the 13 smallest states are almost invariably non-competitive, and ignored, in presidential elections. Six regularly vote Republican (Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, and South Dakota),, and six regularly vote Democratic (Rhode Island, Delaware, Hawaii, Vermont, Maine, and DC) in presidential elections. So despite the fact that these 12 states together possess 40 electoral votes, because they are not closely divided battleground states, none of these 12 states get visits, advertising or polling or policy considerations by presidential candidates.
These 12 states together contain 11 million people. Because of the two electoral-vote bonus that each state receives, the 12 non-competitive small states have 40 electoral votes. However, the two-vote bonus is an entirely illusory advantage to the small states. Ohio has 11 million people and has "only" 20 electoral votes. As we all know, the 11 million people in Ohio are the center of attention in presidential campaigns, while the 11 million people in the 12 non-competitive small states are utterly irrelevant. Nationwide election of the President would make each of the voters in the 12 smallest states as important as an Ohio voter.
The concept of a national popular vote for President is far from being politically "radioactive" in small states, because the small states recognize they are the most disadvantaged group of states under the current system.
In small states, the National Popular Vote bill already has been approved by eight state legislative chambers, including one house in Delaware and Maine and both houses in Hawaii, Rhode Island, and Vermont. It has been enacted by Hawaii.
kohler (Thu Feb 18 00:56:44 2010)
The 11 most populous states contain 56% of the population of the United States and a candidate would win the Presidency if 100% of the voters in these 11 states voted for one candidate. However, if anyone is concerned about the this theoretical possibility, it should be pointed out that, under the current system, a candidate could win the Presidency by winning a mere 51% of the vote in these same 11 states -- that is, a mere 26% of the nation's votes.
Of course, the political reality is that the 11 largest states rarely act in concert on any political question. In terms of recent presidential elections, the 11 largest states include five "red states (Texas, Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, and Georgia) and six "blue" states (California, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and New Jersey). The fact is that the big states are just about as closely divided as the rest of the country. For example, among the four largest states, the two largest Republican states (Texas and Florida) generated a total margin of 2.1 million votes for Bush, while the two largest Democratic states generated a total margin of 2.1 million votes for Kerry.
Moreover, the notion that any candidate could win 100% of the vote in one group of states and 0% in another group of states is far-fetched. Indeed, among the 11 most populous states, the highest levels of popular support were found in the following seven non-battleground states:
* Texas (62% Republican),
* New York (59% Democratic),
* Georgia (58% Republican),
* North Carolina (56% Republican),
* Illinois (55% Democratic),
* California (55% Democratic), and
* New Jersey (53% Democratic).
In addition, the margins generated by the nation's largest states are hardly overwhelming in relation to the 122,000,000 votes cast nationally. Among the 11 most populous states, the highest margins were the following seven non-battleground states:
* Texas -- 1,691,267 Republican
* New York -- 1,192,436 Democratic
* Georgia -- 544,634 Republican
* North Carolina -- 426,778 Republican
* Illinois -- 513,342 Democratic
* California -- 1,023,560 Democratic
* New Jersey -- 211,826 Democratic
To put these numbers in perspective, Oklahoma (7 electoral votes) alone generated a "wasted" margin of 455,000 votes for Bush in 2004 -- larger than the margin generated by the 9th and 10th largest states, namely New Jersey and North Carolina (each with 15 electoral votes). Utah (5 electoral votes) alone generated a "wasted" margin of 385,000 votes for Bush in 2004.
kohler (Thu Feb 18 00:57:46 2010)
The National Popular Vote bill is currently endorsed by over 1,707 state legislators (in 48 states) who have sponsored and/or cast recorded votes in favor of the bill.
In Gallup polls since 1944, only about 20% of the public has supported the current system of awarding all of a state's electoral votes to the presidential candidate who receives the most votes in each separate state (with about 70% opposed and about 10% undecided). The recent Washington Post, Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University poll shows 72% support for direct nationwide election of the President. This national result is similar to recent polls in closely divided battleground states: Colorado-- 68%, Iowa --75%, Michigan-- 73%, Missouri-- 70%, New Hampshire-- 69%, Nevada-- 72%, New Mexico-- 76%, North Carolina-- 74%, Ohio-- 70%, Pennsylvania -- 78%, Virginia -- 74%, and Wisconsin -- 71%; in smaller states (3 to 5 electoral votes): Alaska – 70%, DC – 76%, Delaware --75%, Maine -- 77%, Nebraska -- 74%, New Hampshire --69%, Nevada -- 72%, New Mexico -- 76%, Rhode Island -- 74%, and Vermont -- 75%; in Southern and border states: Arkansas --80%, Kentucky -- 80%, Mississippi --77%, Missouri -- 70%, North Carolina -- 74%, and Virginia -- 74%; and in other states polled: California -- 70%, Connecticut -- 74% , Massachusetts -- 73%, Minnesota – 75%, New York -- 79%, Washington -- 77%, and West Virginia- 81%. Support is strong in every partisan and demographic group surveyed.
The National Popular Vote bill has passed 29 state legislative chambers, in 19 small, medium-small, medium, and large states, including one house in Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Michigan, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, and Oregon, and both houses in California, Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Washington. The bill has been enacted by Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, Maryland, and Washington. These five states possess 61 electoral votes -- 23% of the 270 necessary to bring the law into effect.
kohler (Thu Feb 18 00:58:56 2010)
Under the current presidential election system, voters in three-quarters of the states are not politically relevant; every vote is not equal; states disregard the votes for the losers of their state, and do not value the votes for the winner beyond the one vote more than the leading opponent; the House of Representatives could be left to decide who will be President; and the clear will of the people may be ignored. Ultimately, the choice is whether it is more important for the winner in a particular state to receive the state's electoral votes or for the winner of the entire country to win the White House.
kohler (Thu Feb 18 01:00:50 2010)
National Popular Vote did not invent popular elections. Having election results determined by the candidate getting the most individual votes is not some scary, untested idea loaded with unintended consequences. Adding up votes of all voters and winning with the most popular votes is the method that is used in virtually every other election in the country.
kohler (Thu Feb 18 01:03:13 2010)
Well, Mr. Kohler seems to know all there is to know about this issue, but his disregard of the organizing principles on which this Nation is founded, shows the fatal flaw of his argument. He does, however, support the notion laid out by Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev,"I once said, "We will bury you," and I got into trouble with it. Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you.”
Comrade Kohler, for all your obfuscation of facts, we are a republic, not a pure democracy, because these men and women who helped create this unique Nation, understood, pure democracy is only one vote shy of anarchy.
Richard Parins (Thu Feb 18 09:25:10 2010)
National Popular Vote has nothing to do with whether the country has a "republican" form of government or is a "democracy."
A "republican" form of government means that the voters do not make laws themselves but, instead, delegate the job to periodically elected officials (Congressmen, Senators, and the President). The United States has a "republican" form of government regardless of whether popular votes for presidential electors are tallied at the state-level (as is currently the case in 48 states) or at district-level (as is currently the case in Maine and Nebraska) or at 50-state-level (as under the National Popular Vote bill).
kohler (Thu Feb 18 11:35:39 2010)
I disagree with the argument that small states(like Wisconsin) would be better off with just counting the popular vote. Mr. Kohler suggests that they are being ignored now so they would be better off in just counting popular vote throughout the nation and "let the chips fall where they may".
The reason that some of the small states are ignored is that a significant number of them are solidly in one camp or another hence they don't take the time or money to campaign heavily in those states.
If the states were more closely contested(like Wisconsin) then you would see the candidates here even though they have few electoral votes compared the the big three of New York, California, and Illinois.
If you were to go to just counting the popular vote you would certainly not have a voice if you lived in a small or even medium state and you would probably not see the candidates much if at all unless you lived in the populus states.
The "Republic" was set up to prevent this and give, as much as possible, and equal voice of every American living in this country. I do not feel that California, New York, or Illinois should dictate how my vote is counted.
This seems a little like the group who wants to change the filibuster rules in the Senate because now it does not benefit them.
Mike Thomas
Mike Thomas (Fri Feb 19 08:44:05 2010)
Wisconsin is not a small state. It is the 20th largest state in the country.
The Senate, as intended by the Founders, gives smaller states power well beyond their populations.
The National Popular Vote bill does not eliminate the electoral college, it does not force electors to vote for a candidate they don't want, it does not disenfranchise voters, it does not cancel votes, it does not negate votes, nor does it ignore votes.
It adds up votes of all voters and the candidate with the most popular votes wins, as in virtually every other election in the country.
kohler (Fri Feb 19 13:06:36 2010)
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