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8/31/2010
How many times can you say 'small business?'
Rep. Steve Kagen is on tour - 50 cities in the next four days – to try to hang on to his job. If you hear him, let me know what he says about “small business.” It’s the Dem’s buzz word these days. WBAY quotes the good doctor:
We're a strong country, we're a hard working people, and when we make things here in America, we're gonna make it. First and foremost today, jobs trump debt. So we've got to get people working again so they can stay in their own home, not somebody else's.
Gonna? Starting to sound like President Obama. Which makes complete sense. Dems in the House have been issued a 12-page memo...
that highlights the efforts of some of the most vulnerable Democratic lawmakers and includes dozens of examples of small-business-related measures and amendments that freshmen and sophomores have sponsored.
Looking to counter Republican charges that Democratic spending policies have dramatically worsened the economic situation, Democratic leaders have strategically offered their most vulnerable members the opportunity to serve as chief co-sponsors of politically advantageous bills, including many of the piecemeal small-business measures that the House passed this year.
Democrats plan to launch another attack on Republicans today for opposing a small-business lending bill that has stalled in the Senate amid GOP opposition, a Democratic leadership aide tells Hunter.
And Obama is following the same playbook.
Listening to the President’s quick press conference yesterday, sound problems and all, he said “small business” about 20 times. (Well, I wasn’t counting…) And slammed Senate Republicans for stalling this $30B bill that’s a drop in the bucket when it comes to any “stimulus” – aside from whether it would be effective or not. Politics. Pure politics.
If you hear Rep. Kagen on his grand 50-city tour, please let me know how many times he says “small business.”
Jo Egelhoff, FoxPolitics.net
COMMENTS
Jo, if the bill is insignificant, "a drop in the bucket" why do senate R's stall it? For that matter why don't they initiate a bigger more effective stimulus?
Dean
Dean Weichmann (Tue Aug 31 05:15:31 2010)
You answered your own question Dean. The bill is insignificant, needless (or at least, with very little effectiveness) spending. It's politics. $30+ billion of your tax dollars and mine - for politics. So spend more, you say? Geeeesh.
Jo (Tue Aug 31 05:18:2010)
You assume that you Know the motivation of other people here. What do you even know of the bill? Why do you think it would not be effective?
Dean Weichmann (Tue Aug 31 05:39:26 2010)
Yes spend more. How effective is doing nothing? You once said that you read Krugman, obviously not much or you would understand.
Krugman is abrasive, so I can understand that he would irritate you. He is right when it comes to economics.
Dean Weichmann (Tue Aug 31 05:53:23 2010)
Where would the small businesses be today if it weren't for the stimulus provided directly and the extension of unemployment benefits? Do you see all the highway construction out there? Where would all the auto related small businesses in Wisconsin be if GM was bankrupted without government intervention and not kept together? Where would the small businesses be if the credit meltdowns of 2008 followed their own course? The facts are that this country is perilously close to having a lost decade like Japan or worse. This, like the Great Depression is caused when government intervention is too weak, when deficits are not large enough to stimulate demand and when deflation occurs. These are well documented by reputable economists. Yet, plenty of people out there who aren't in office and many who are are either ignorant or willing to sacrifice this country to get in office by decreasing stimulus. The Obama administration continued many of the Bush policies that kept the economy from being totally destroyed and as much as I disagreed with many of the things Bush did he got those right. Small business will be Ok when there is demand, good infrastructure, increasing prices, level playing fields, access to credit.
dave allen (Tue Aug 31 07:02:20 2010)
Dean, because "small business" does not fund elections, BIG business does. And $30 billion is not worth it Jo? Give me a break. Your politics is showing through.
Jack Lohman (Tue Aug 31 07:38:59 2010)
Small business will be Ok when there is demand, good infrastructure, increasing prices, level playing fields, access to credit.
So you agree then, that the "Bush tax cuts for the wealthy" should be extended instead of letting them expire?
Let me get this straight: The One is complaining that it's the Republicans who are stalling his spending plans. Yet when it came to passing the most egregious legislation in history somehow the health care insurance takeover made it through both houses.
Maybe it's Bush's fault (again).
Duke (Tue Aug 31 07:42:33 2010)
Duke, ObamaCare made it through both houses because both houses shared in the $125 million in campaign bribes. Get used to it.
And no, the Bush tax cuts should NOT be extended. Where are the jobs they were supposed to create? they only helped the economy to collapse. And oh, don't miss this: http://tinyurl.com/22ozntk
Jack Lohman (Tue Aug 31 08:03:41 2010)
Oh my, where to start!
Dave, you inquire where small business would be today if it weren't for the federal stimulus and the extension of unemployment benefits. Since every dollar spent on stimulus is extracted from the economy, a stimulation of one sector of the economy will naturally result in harm in another sector. The difficulty for many is this: We can see the effect of stimulus in the favored sector (highway construction, for example) but we cannot see the harm done in many other sectors, harm caused by the misapplication of scarce resources.
Regarding the extension of unemployment benefits, did you hear the local businessman tell of his struggle to find a few qualified workers recently, only to have them quit a few weeks after being hired. Why? Because unemployment benefits were extended and getting handouts seemed easier than work!
You suggest the horror had GM been bankrupted. Dave, we do have bankruptcy courts. These courts successfully process numerous bankruptcies annually. Some businesses come out of the process and thrive; others are dissolved in an orderly fashion. However, to the point: Would demand for cars, and therefore car parts, be reduced by the bankruptcy of one automaker? Of course not. Those who need a new car would still buy one, albeit a different brand. Therefore other automakers would add workers and increase their orders for supplies from Wisconsin's parts suppliers. Demand does not vanish just because of a bankruptcy.
If federal stimulus, funded by tax dollars, is what's needed to revive a sluggish economy, why not a $1b stimulus, or, better yet, a $2b, $3b, or even $4b stimulus? That should really get things going! In fact, why wait for the economy to tank? Why not just always pass huge stimulus bills to keep the economy in a perpetual state of nirvana?
Yes, I'm in favor of no bailouts, no government takeover of business, no increase in taxes, no new regulations on top of the stifling regulations already in place, no belief in government's ability to create real jobs.
Dave, you are correct when you say "Small business will be Ok (sic) when there is demand...." However, this needed demand will not become reality as long as businesses are frightfully uncertain of what additional taxes and regulations will be put upon them tomorrow. There must be certainty. All the taxes and stimulus imaginable cannot provide certainty.
Ron Zahn (Tue Aug 31 08:51:24 2010)
This article sums it up for me:
"Why not revitalize the economy with pyramids?"
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=1003
Andrew Ellis (Tue Aug 31 09:12:28 2010)
Andrew, maybe pyramids are the way to go, or maybe the extreme left or right is the best. But I'd like that decision made by an elected board of directors (congress) that is not taking bribes on the side. Nor do I want the extreme left or right making this decision on their own.
Weird? Yea, I know.
Jack Lohman (Tue Aug 31 10:06:05 2010)
Ron, the dollars are not extracted from the economy for this kind of stimulus. There is a multiplier effect. Tax cuts are a different matter, not paying back into the treasury their full amount.
Keith Schmitz (Tue Aug 31 10:44:58 2010)
Jack, that was a good link, thanks for providing it.
Ron,
>>>Since every dollar spent on stimulus is extracted from the economy, a stimulation of one sector of the economy will naturally result in harm in another sector.<<<
Money from the federal government can come from general taxes, signiorage ("created out of thin air"), or from the future (deficeit spending). It does not need to harm another sector. The greatest harm right now comes from unemployment or underemployment.
Dean Weichmann (Tue Aug 31 12:07:23 2010)
Dean,
No, I do not agree about the Bush tax cuts. Tax cuts increase investment or savings not necessarily spending. Demand=Spending. Unemployment compensation and direct investment in infrastructure =Spending=Demand. We have the lowest interest rates in recent history. Where are all those dollars that are saved from tax cuts? Locked up in money markets and CDs.
dave allen (Tue Aug 31 15:26:49 2010)
Dean, thanks for the insight. Could it still be said that every federal dollar spent on stimulus is extracted from the economy and results in harm to another sector of the economy? Taxes -- it's obvious. Signiorage -- results in inflation, which hurts everybody except those carrying debt. Deficit spending -- hurts our children and grandchildren. Just asking -- I'm very much in the learning stage!
Ron Zahn (Wed Sep 01 08:34:10 2010)
Ron,
Inflation at about 2-6% is considered normal. People learn to expect it and it affects their spending and saving patterns. An inflation rate lower or higher than that is detrimental. The usual worry is runaway inflation but we are now in a period of very low inflation or deflation. It is harder politically to fight deflation since people cannot see that government spending is not the same as personal.
>>>Could it still be said that every federal dollar spent on stimulus is extracted from the economy and results in harm to another sector of the economy?<<<
No, why would it? As I pointed out, the greater harm is from a depressed economy.
>>>Signiorage -- results in inflation, which hurts everybody except those carrying debt.<<<
Again, how? Unless one is dependant upon a fixed income. No COLAS? Retired people come to mind but seems to me they are now being hurt by stock market losses.
>>> Deficit spending -- hurts our children and grandchildren<<<
They would be hurt more if the cumulative effect of long term inflation does not reduce real debt.
Dean Weichmann (Wed Sep 01 12:25:26 2010)
Krugman you say? If you read and think he is great, you probably can not understand anything. He is confused, contradictory, and ignorant of cause and effect. To call him an economist would be like calling a bullfrog a great singer. I read Krugman solely for the fun of poking holes in his flimsy flights of fantasy. Not sure which nomination most discredited the Nobel committee, his, Obama's or Gore's.
Ken Van Doren (Wed Sep 01 13:24:30 2010)
Keith for every multiplier effect, there is a DEmultiplier effect. Since government involvement tends to double costs because of extra red tape, layers of bureaucracies, and regulations Like but not restricted to Davis Bacon, for every government paid job created, 2 private sector jobs will be destroyed.
The multiplier effect is just more Keynesian hokum. How is it established? What proof is there that overall, more economic activity resulted, when you consider ALL the economic effects, not just the effects on the beneficiaries of government largesse? The seen and the unseen, as Ron was hinting at.
Ken Van Doren (Wed Sep 01 13:43:23 2010)
Ken, could you be specific? All you are doing is calling names.
>>>He is confused, contradictory, and ignorant of cause and effect. <<< Show specifically...perhaps it is you who is confused about cause and effect.
Given contradictory opinions from you and Krugman I will go with Krugman. Cite your own credentials or cite someone with as good credentials as Krugman.
Dean Weichmann (Wed Sep 01 13:59:19 2010)
Ken,
Could you provide evidence for your statement?
>>>for every government paid job created, 2 private sector jobs will be destroyed. <<<
For that matter, the stimulus money that is now being spent on infrastructure (roads, bridges...)is paid to private contractors.
Dean Weichmann (Wed Sep 01 14:08:36 2010)
"Duke, ObamaCare made it through both houses because both houses shared in the $125 million in campaign bribes. Get used to it." Now look what you've done. Dick Morris will be in Sheboygan this Saturday for a Tea Party Rally.
George (Tue Aug 31 10:34:34 2010)
Dean Weichmann (Thu Sep 02 09:46:41 2010)
I ran across this today, it addresses some of the points brought up. It is, I think, non-partisan.
http://macroadvisers.blogspot.com/2010/02/ma-on-fiscal-stimulus-definitive-answer.html
>>>Frequently, partisan commentators — and even some economists — exclaim that the stimulus has failed because the unemployment rate now exceeds the peak shown in projections prepared before ARRA was implemented.4 This argument, which clearly — and perhaps intentionally — confuses the pre-stimulus baseline with the incremental effects of the stimulus, would be laughable if it was not taken so seriously in some quarters. For the record, last spring, as the financial crisis that engulfed the economy worsened unexpectedly — but before the stimulus could possibly have had any real effect on the economy — the unemployment rate already had moved above the Administration’s (and many others’) last pre-stimulus projection. So, this is simple: the baseline forecasts were optimistic, but unemployment would be even higher now without the benefit of the stimulus package.<<<
The basic message is that the stimulus worked, but was too small. More stimulus is needed.
Dean Weichmann (Thu Sep 02 09:52:54 2010)
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